batmanschmatman | 017 [audio]

It's... well, talking to John isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you're aware that where he's coming from is a very twisted take on religion. Having said that - I can see where he's coming from. I'm not Catholic, and it's a very specific approach and culture to God. I wouldn't pretend to be part of that.

That being said, I'd be quite happy to talk to him about God. I'm quite happy to talk to anyone who wants to, to be honest. So absolutely, you can send him my way, and I have talked to him on and off on the subject, but I understand that the difference between me and him, I imagine, is not an easy one to overcome.

If it helps, and I haven't told many people this, really, but I was all but ordained as a priest, once. But, again, a Protestant one.

I'd rather he talk with someone he can trust who sees things a little differently from him then to trust someone who just ends up hurting him, you know? Hell, I'm starting to wonder if I should start doing some research into it to try and give him someone another person to talk to who isn't going to suddenly reveal they're totally crazy.

... Not that I necessarily anticipate that happening, but I've seen enough religious cult leaders and maniacs hurt innocent people in the name of god or gods or whoever else to be concerned.

But seriously, thanks Howie. I really appreciate it.

I think it's certainly the best way to approach it, but equally, as long as he's aware that John isn't trustworthy and he should be careful, it might be for the best. That being said, if I were him, and someone wanted to force me to talk to a Catholic about God, I wouldn't be too happy.

You don't need to talk to me about religious cults. At all.

Anything I can do, I'll be quite happy to, because Costigan doesn't deserve a guy like John messing up his head about guilt and atonement. Which I imagine is his general theme, and really, nobody needs that.

Yeah, I think caution's really the best way to go. Outright telling him not to talk to him would probably just make things worse, and I'm definitely not monitoring his communications with him or anything unless he gives me permission to first. It's just frustrating feeling like there should be something more you could do to prevent something from happening, you know?

Hit the nail right on the head. Sounds like you two have done a bit of talking.

I think talking from a distance is of less harm than meeting with him - I'm not quite sure myself what John's actual problem is, but from talking to him, I think he believes himself some kind of sword of God, some kind of instrument of punishment, perhaps.

I'm not sure Costigan would be the first target of something like that, but he might be the sort of man he looks to get to help him. I imagine this is all things you could get off his warden instead of me. I'm just making educated guesses.

It is frustrating, though. Feel free to offer me as someone to talk to,and I'll try to be as open and understanding as I can with the whole Catholic and Protestant difference, but it's a different way of being educated and growing up, so I'll understand why he'd find that difficult.

In my experience, educated guesses can be just as helpful as facts in situations like this. From what you've seen, do you think he's actively looking for people to join his "cause" persay? I mean, I'd like to think Bill's smart enough not to get caught up in something like that, but just out of curiosity. [Dick's talked with Will, but he knows Wardens aren't always straight with people about their own inmates, and therefore the other opinions might come in handy.]

This is probably just me coming from a pretty not religious household, and I seriously don't mean to be offensive or anything, but what exactly's the big deal? I mean, I'm pretty well versed on the history behind the whole thing, obviously, and I know services are different, but at the end of the day, you still follow the same basic ideas. And even then, can't debating what's the "right" way to do something be a little more enlightening then just talking with someone who totally agrees with you? Again, this is just me being curious.

I would say... possibly. I think he might have tried to persuade me to join his cause, but equally, I think he's the sort of man who's quite happy being a lone vigilante type. He likes seeing himself above the rest of us, I'm not entirely sure, as some sort of ultimate judgement from God that nobody else can have. So this... would make him more likely to act alone, in my mind, so I don't think he's actively looking for someone to help.

I've never, personally, been one for religious politics. I personally believe that if everyone can love each other like they love God, and don't believe they're part of some elite club, then things might be a damn sight better. That being said, there's some element of cultural difference; for example, I was brought up with a specific kind of work ethic, a specific kind of self-restraint, the idea of living my life in Christ. My fiancee, who was a different, stricter kind of Protestant, was brought up without drinking alcohol, with a very, very strict Sabbath, with the concept of bearing witness. And then Catholics, I imagine, are brought up with the concepts of Confession and forgiveness through that, and... I don't know, aside from the obvious differences, it's a cultural thing, it's how you're brought up, and where you're brought up and why.

And that's a very hard thing to have to compromise, when those elements of your culture are things which you believe are God's truth.

Hm. I guess that's... sort of comforting. I'd rather have one "warrior of God" or something then a whole cult on board. Do you think he's actively selecting victims?

Guess that explains how I've been missing out then. Gotham's definitely a city that leans towards agnosticism and self reliance more then anything else.

Still, I guess I'm just sure where John fits what Costigan's looking for. He said he made him a little uncomfortable, he's not actually sure he's a Catholic, and I get the idea that beggars can't be choosers? But in this case, I don't really think the idiom applies.

I think he's always actively selecting victims. I think the way he sees the world is mired in sin, apart from him, and... it wouldn't surprise me if nearly anyone could be a victim, especially here.

I do come from a quite religious part of the world, I have to admit. It's... important to us.

I think he is a Catholic, and he definitely has some kind of thing for the Inferno, from the way he talked to Judas, by my guess. I think... he's not a dangerous man to talk to. But he's a dangerous man to pay attention to.

Guess I'll be keeping my eye on that.

... Not that I don't trust Will to do his best to keep him in control, but. It's hard to let go of the "to protect and serve" instinct.

That's exactly what I'm concerned about. If they can talk productively, fine, but there's a very fine line between just talking and actually taking what someone's saying to heart.

And there's definitely nothing wrong with that. In some ways I think Gotham would be better off if people had something other then panic in the wake of prison breaks from Arkham to unite them.

Don't worry, it's half my intent in talking to him anyway, keeping an eye on that.

I'd advise anyone who wasn't certain in their faith not to talk to him, or to take him incredibly skeptically. As I imagine what he says sounds incredibly tempting if you're not secure in what you believe. But I can't speak for Costigan on that.

It does as much dividing as uniting at times, unfortunately.

Nice to know I'm not alone.

I think I'm just going to give him all the facts I have and tell him to be careful. I wish I could do something more, but I'm pretty sure anything else would just end badly. I'd like to think by this point he trusts me enough to know I'm not just making this up.

Believe me, I get that. Or, more like, I'm aware of it, because I seriously don't really understand the division.

I think, if he came to talk to you about it anyway, he's suspicious enough for himself, so he should trust you on that.

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